I recently had a run-in with an IT Manager about the definition of a “server operating system.” I don't claim know anything about IT, so I thought I would just post it here and let the mob have a laugh at both of us. I'm sorry if it's a bit long.

I work in a lab at a university. The department has its own IT staff of three: a programmer/analyst, an systems administrator and the IT manager. Each lab operates more or less autonomously except for coordinating IP addresses through the IT office. Each user is an “ad-hoc administrator” and each lab has an unofficial “administrator” who coordinates with IT and ensures that everyone follows university policy. In other words, it's chaos. This might qualify as a WTF by itself.
Since I know how to turn a computer off and on, I was treated as the administrator for our lab. I received the following email addressed to the entire department and then things just fell apart.

Manager: If you administer and have a server in your research group on the [DEPARTMENT] Network, please email to [EMAIL@UNIVERSITY].edu the IP address(es) of all your servers in your research group by [DATE]. We do not need your DNS information (hostname), -only the IP address(es). And we -do not- need any IP addresses for other networked equipment: (workstations, laptops, printers, hplc's, networked lab devices.) We only need IP addresses of computers running Server Operating Systems.
Thank you.

Perhaps naively, I assumed that they meant webservers, FTP servers and so on. The sort of things that might be inventoried by someone working on the firewall. So I asked for a little clarification of exactly what type of servers were of interest.

Me: I'm not entirely sure what is meant by Server Operating System. We have assorted machines running various combinations of Apache, SSH, SMB, AFP, DAV and VNC servers on Windows XP and Mac OS X. About which configurations should I report?

Manager: Just the IP addresses is all I need. You are confusing Operating systems with TCP and UDP protocols and services. SSH, SMB, AFP, DAV do not have IP addresses they are protocols and services not servers. VNC is a remote control software solution, not a server operating system. Here is the definition of an operating system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system Your apache web software may or may not have a sep IP address depending on how you set it up, but we do not consider that server with an operating system.
Hope that helps.

This is where I said WTF. Although it sounded condescending, the sentiment might have been genuine. However, it didn't clarify anything. How could a machine running Apache not be a server? Can't almost any modern OS be used as a server operating system? So I decided to just get a list of exactly what they wanted.

Me: I still don't understand which machines running server programs count as Server Operating Systems and which do not. If a machine running Apache does not count as a server then I am totally flummoxed. Do you want to know which machines are running the Server edition of their particular OS, as in Mac OS X vs Mac OS X Server? Please provide a list of operating systems, servers and protocols that would qualify a machine.

Manager: I'm not looking for server programs. Just the ip address of any server operating system you have.

That was no good, it was just the original question again. Since we were running in circles, I went to the IT office to get this straightened out. As soon as I opened the door, I was berated for making the Manager's life difficult. Somewhat taken aback, I tried to figure out what they had meant by server operating system that was neither an Apache server machine or an operating system marketed as “Server.” I asked what the IP list was for, thinking that key words like firewall or licensing might come up. Nope, more yelling. Eventually, I got them to explain it to me as if I was a child. They started enumerating: "Windows 2003 Server, Red Hat Enterprise Edition..." I left quietly.

After it sank in, I wrote a sternly worded email that was too long and boring to post here. I never heard back from the manager. I figured that they just didn't read my emails anymore. Eventually, a WiFi access point failed and the manager had to come into the lab to fix it. When I started to describe the problem, the manager looked at me and flat-out asked to speak to someone else about the problem. I guess I'm not the administrator anymore.

Well to be fair, the IT manager was probably expecting the unofficial "administrator" to have some technical skills. Pretty fair guess if he didn't know the situation.

One would have to assume that if he's saying "Running server operating systems" he's doing inventory control for licensing etc, so he just wanted a list of anything running an operating system that was server related as opposed to any machine running some application which might be considered a server (EG: Apache is a web server, but if I install it on an XP box I wouldn't consider it to now be running a server operating system).

So on to the WTF's...

1. Your assumption that "server operating system" was implied by having an application running as a service (Though tbh if you're non-technical that's not really to be expected, tbh if I was talking to someone introduced as the admin I'd expect them to know that)
2. His response. While everything he said is true, he could've solved the whole thing at step 1 by adding "For example Windows Server 2003 is a server OS, Windows XP is not".

Tbh everything he said was correct, but his explaination was terrible...

fyjham:

Well to be fair, the IT manager was probably expecting the unofficial "administrator" to have some technical skills. Pretty fair guess if he didn't know the situation.

Agreed.  Also, the OP is now surprised that he is no longer the administrator after sending a "sternly worded email" to the manager.  So basically he's a whiny, pedantic twat who would rather quibble over semantics than actually use any kind of judgement of his own.  Thank God he's not out in the workforce (yet)...

Did you consider writing something like "We have a computer running Windows XP which is acting as a file server but is not actually running a server operating. Does this count?"

fyjham:

One would have to assume that if he's saying "Running server operating systems" he's doing inventory control for licensing etc

 The OP indicates that the IP list was not for licensing purposes, so asking for the IP addresses of only "server" operating systems seems pretty asinine. There really isn't an effective difference between Redhat running Apache and Fedora running Apache.

 

 

 

 

From the replies so far, it would seem that I was making the better half of the WTF. Fair enough. I guess I should have a little more faith in our IT manager.


fyjham: I should point out that this is not a CS or related department and that there are no qualifications, instructions or training involved in being the "administrator." There should have been no assumptions about the skill level of the people being contacted. There isn't even a list of these people in case IT wanted to contact them. I ended up acting in that role simply because I was the guy that turned things off and on when they stopped working. As for licensing, there is no central licensing. Each lab manages its own licenses, so IT probably wasn't interested in that. But, I did ask explicitly if they wanted to know about "the Server edition of [a] particular OS, as in Mac OS X vs Mac OS X Server."

morbiuswilters: The sternly worded email that I omitted opened with an apology if I was acting like a gadfly, followed by a summary of our discussion in their office to document what was said and finished with a request that the manager act in a more professional manner in the future (not raising their voice and accusing me of jerking them around). I even ran it past a coworker to make sure that it didn't sound snarky. Since the manager never responded, how was I to know that I was no longer the administrator? But not to worry, I won't be joining the IT workforce.
I did like "whiny, pedantic twat who would rather quibble over semantics than actually use any kind of judgement of his own." As they say, "oh snap."

fourchan: I said something to that effect, "We have assorted machines running various combinations of Apache, SSH, SMB, AFP, DAV and VNC servers on Windows XP and Mac OS X. About which configurations should I report?"

HaunchesMcGee: That was my line of thinking and I think it's where I went wrong. With my limited background I didn't see the difference between a Windows XP webserver and a Windows 2003 Server webserver.

HaunchesMcGee:

 The OP indicates that the IP list was not for licensing purposes, so asking for the IP addresses of only "server" operating systems seems pretty asinine. There really isn't an effective difference between Redhat running Apache and Fedora running Apache.

Fair point, I must've missed that. I guess then yeah it's pretty hard to determine the intended use the guy has for the information...

And yeah, the distinction of what constitutes a "server OS" is a much more blurred line when you get into the Linux area rather than Microsoft seeing as most linux distributions could just as easily be used as a server or client machine by changing the config/software (That can also be said for windows too, but seeing as there's specific server versions it's pretty clear where to draw the line on a server OS). I sorta assumed it wasn't a Linux computer lab because if it is the question is completely unanswerable :P

DKNewsham:

fyjham: I should point out that this is not a CS or related department and that there are no qualifications, instructions or training involved in being the "administrator." There should have been no assumptions about the skill level of the people being contacted. There isn't even a list of these people in case IT wanted to contact them. I ended up acting in that role simply because I was the guy that turned things off and on when they stopped working. As for licensing, there is no central licensing. Each lab manages its own licenses, so IT probably wasn't interested in that. But, I did ask explicitly if they wanted to know about "the Server edition of [a] particular OS, as in Mac OS X vs Mac OS X Server."

Yeah, I know, at that point WTF#2 of my list came up. His responses were 100% useless and his questions were very much open to interpretation. And I get that there's no real reason to assume technical skill, but does the IT manager know this? What I meant to imply was he may have assumed a level of technical knowledge above what you had simply from the name "Administrator", or even worse assumed that all the labs (I'm assuming there'd be a few by the first email) would have technically savvy "administrators" and has a full inbox of "what's a server OS?" and by the time you visited his office just wanted to murder something :P Though tbh as pointed out that question can be impossible to answer depending on your operating systems.

 

DKNewsham:

Manager: .... And we -do not- need any IP addresses for other networked equipment: (workstations, laptops, printers, hplc's, networked lab devices.) We only need IP addresses of computers running Server Operating Systems.
Thank you.

So... that means if you have a laptop running Windows 2003 Server Edition, you:

A) Email the IP to the manager
B) Don't Email the IP to the manager
C) Write the Email but don't send it
D) Send an Email but don't put the IP in it
E) Laud the desktopworthiness of the laptop since it's never actually been used and may be even chained down, therefore making it technically not a laptop per se; though it is only running apache on plain Windows XP.... eventually resulting in your ban from communicating with the IT team.

 What a mess. You should have just sent a list of everything, right down to the network enabled printer (Protocol: SMB (Services: 1 (printer), HTTP, SNMP, TELNET; OS- unknown, (firmware GPL licenced), Processor: Unknown, non-x86; ip 10.16.38.45(dhcp) ) and let them sort it out.

 You were quite right to ask for clarification, and could not reply sensibly until you got it.

 Your question was also very clear, and their reply - like mud. Best of luck, you are best out of it.

Manager: We only need IP addresses of computers running Server Operating Systems.

I believe the request was unclear. I was confused too when I read it. The manager should have said "We only need IP addresses of computers running as servers."

Therefore, a machine running Red Hat Linux with an Apache webserver would count as a server. The same machine running Red Hat Linux but no service that is used by other computers in the lab (an example of such machine is your workstation from where you surf the WWW) would not count as a server. This as nothing to do with the OS, although of course some OSes (e.g. Windows 2003 Server) are meant to run in a server. That's how I interpret it.

 

fyjham:

What I meant to imply was he may have assumed a level of technical knowledge above what you had simply from the name "Administrator"...

My interpretation here, is that the OP seems to have a greater technical knowledge then the manager. It seems like the manager doesn't understand why his question was ambiguious in the first place. Even when asked outright if he meant X, where X was what it turned out he did mean, he just repeated the question again, which suggestes that he didn't understand the question himself.

fyjham:

...or even worse assumed that all the labs (I'm assuming there'd be a few by the first email) would have technically savvy "administrators" and has a full inbox of "what's a server OS?" and by the time you visited his office just wanted to murder something :P Though tbh as pointed out that question can be impossible to answer depending on your operating systems.

 

This does seem rather likely.

I've always advocated returning icompetent obstinacy with enthusiastic incompetency. Such as sending them a list of every IP address used in the lab, without any note of which IP corresponds with what device in the lab. Technically, that's all they asked for.

 I argee that it's likely that the IT manager didn't understand what he was asking for, either. Probably some sysop or admin told him they needed a list of 'servers running on each labs network' or something, and he interpreted it in some strange way.

There was an article on /. this morning about using W2k3 Server as workstation OS because it can work out better than Vista.

OzPeter:

There was an article on /. this morning about using W2k3 Server as workstation OS because it can work out better than Vista.

Oops .. that was really meant to be W2k8 server. My bad.

SpoonMeiser:

fyjham:

What I meant to imply was he may have assumed a level of technical knowledge above what you had simply from the name "Administrator"...

My interpretation here, is that the OP seems to have a greater technical knowledge then the manager. It seems like the manager doesn't understand why his question was ambiguious in the first place. Even when asked outright if he meant X, where X was what it turned out he did mean, he just repeated the question again, which suggestes that he didn't understand the question himself.

 

 

I got the same impression.  It is common for semi-technical god-complexed MS-Certified goons to mistake MSs OS titles for real technical distinctions rather than pricing strategies. 

 

It's possible that the list was being requested for a BSA-type audit (while a licensing thing, the manager may not have understood that, given the apparent lack of knowlege), for a firewall/proxy config setting (so that one could apply a different outbound filter to servers than to desktops), for a skills inventory, and probably a dozen other uses.

 If I had been in the same situation, as a seasoned professional, my first email would have been something along the lines of:

 

Which Operating Systems specifically are you interested in?  In particular, I'm uncertain which Linux distributions count as server OSes versus desktop OSes.  A list would be helpful.  PS: if you want the IPs of all systems which are used as servers, that would be a different list than you just requested.)

 

Actually, having them enumerate them is not having it explained to you as if you were a child, but rather as if they knew what they were talking about and realized you didn't - because there's no other way to do it. 

DKNewsham:

From the replies so far, it would seem that I was making the better half of the WTF. Fair enough. I guess I should have a little more faith in our IT manager.

I wouldn't assess the composition of your WTF based on the rantings of the whiny petulants on this board. Their sole purpose seems to be to dissect every forum post like some breed of malcontented forum vulture.

I found the request vague as well and would have asked for clarification in the same situation. Probably after finding them incapable of clarifying themselves, I would have just sent a list of every IP in the office with its associated operating system rather than trudging myself over there to get berated in person. I guess you're a nicer guy than I am. I actually think the written word is a better tool for technical clarification than verbal communication.

I might be completely off base here, but you did mention that you have to coordinate IP Addresses. From that, it seems unlikely that any sort of DHCP server was running. If that assumption is correct, this scenario may have been an attempt to gather data to setup DHCP reasonably intelligently, and remove the burden of coordinating IP addresses. Under some conditions, it makes sense for servers to have IP addresses reserved in the DHCP scope; netting you the advantage of a "static" IP address for your server, as well as the ease of maintenance of DHCP should you have to change, for example, your DNS settings.

Many of the SysAdmins I've worked with assume that any "server" requires a static IP address, and that anything running 2003/2008/etc was a server, while anything running XP/etc was not.If it was for a firewall, I'd expect them to want a list of require protocols as well- A SMTP Server, Web Server, and FTP Server all have very different firewall requirements.

If it was for licensing, they'd want the version of the OS. Of course, if it was for a DHCP Server, and I was running the show, I'd also like the IP addresses of any network printers, and for you to do the work of collecting the MAC Address. Given the IP, of course I could do myself; probably have the script to add the information to the DHCP Server lookup the MAC address when it did the addition, assuming the server was on. But I'd rather not have to.

 

 

Finwolven:

I've always advocated returning icompetent obstinacy with enthusiastic incompetency. Such as sending them a list of every IP address used in the lab, without any note of which IP corresponds with what device in the lab. Technically, that's all they asked for.

 I argee that it's likely that the IT manager didn't understand what he was asking for, either. Probably some sysop or admin told him they needed a list of 'servers running on each labs network' or something, and he interpreted it in some strange way.

Agreed. Until you know somebody well enough to know whether they're smart or stupid, always assume stupid. Don't waste your time trying to clarify issues with stupid people. Just send back something that answers the question under reasonable interpretation. It's probably just busywork anyway.

Really all a matter of definitions... here's a couple invented definitions of my own...

Server (n): a computer that provides a service (generally, if not always, over a network) to other computers (clients).  Since a "mostly server" machine will almost always be a client in some situations, and a "mostly client" machine will usually be a server in some situations, labelling a machine a "server" or "client" refers more to its overall role in life, rather than a 100% accurate description of everything it will ever do.

Server Operating System (n): clearly defined for any Microsoft operating system -- basically anything with "server" in its name.  Much more nebulous for any other operating system vendor.  Since any modern operating system, "server" or otherwise, is capable of acting as a server, this term is technically meaningless, except where the server or non-server operating systems impose different terms of service, usually with respect to licensing, or restrict certain applications from running on non-server operating systems (e.g., try running Active Directory service on a non-server OS).

 

While the phrase "server operating system" makes me cringe, it does have a clear meaning when used only in the context of Microsoft operating systems.  Otherwise, seeking clarification is definitely a good thing.

AssimilatedByBorg:

Server (n): a computer that provides a service (generally, if not always, over a network) to other computers (clients).

You obviously haven't considered the X-windows definitions of client and server. That really screws around with your head :D. The server is the display system, and the client is the back end program.

But in the context of MS, I regularly set up XP machines to act as servers. As long as you won't exceed the connection restrictions you are fine. Although that is really what separates the types of MS offerings as servers and client systems of the same era share the same code, but the client systems have artificial limits on the number of connections.

OzPeter:

AssimilatedByBorg:

Server (n): a computer that provides a service (generally, if not always, over a network) to other computers (clients).

You obviously haven't considered the X-windows definitions of client and server. That really screws around with your head :D. The server is the display system, and the client is the back end program.

But in the context of MS, I regularly set up XP machines to act as servers. As long as you won't exceed the connection restrictions you are fine. Although that is really what separates the types of MS offerings as servers and client systems of the same era share the same code, but the client systems have artificial limits on the number of connections.

I remember in college when we set our DISPLAY environment variable to point to someone else's dumb terminal. And then running all sort of programs, in particular ones that made sound.

Ah, memories...