As most of you know, this forum has been lacking in moderation for quite some time.  Of course, Alex is the primary moderator, but I have personally never seen him engage in any act of moderation.  Then there is Our Savior The Great ammoQ, who has fought for truth and justice many times.  ammoQ generally only engages in moderation in extreme cases, such as spam or blatant trolling with no point whatsoever.  However, there is a Third..  an anti-ammoQ, if you will.  Where ammoQ is wise and just this moderator has frequently been absent.  While ammoQ has over 3,000 posts and seems quite knowledgeable of the in-jokes that have originated here, this moderator has fewer than 100 and is completely ignorant of our culture.  What's more, he is merely 20 years old and does not seem particularly competent with technology.  I am referring to Michael Something-or-other.

Recently, Michael has taken an interest in moderating this forum more closely.  Personally, I am in favor of increased vigilance against blatant trolls like Lysis and JimBastard, as well as the locking of resurrected threads.  However, I feel that ammoQ has been quite diligent in his duties and has done a reasonable job of keeping the forums in line.  Last night Michael decided to post a thread with a warning of upcoming "official rules".  It seems as though this "moderator" couldn't figure out how to use the forum software, though, so he ended up posting it to pastebin.  I have mirrored his poorly-written rant so that it can be read by others.

Despite having four "guidelines" he really only makes two points: don't call people stupid and don't break up a post point-by-point and "flame" the person.  Anyone capable of reasoning can conclude that the definition of flaming is quite subjective.  What's more, the implication is that one should always be polite when disagreeing with another poster.  While this might be a fine personal rule to follow, expecting others to do the same is petty and obnoxious.  This is not a forum of children and we do not need moderators to look out for the feelings of members who obviously had parents that sheltered them from the slightest provocation.  Also fascinating is the fact that Michael repeatedly violates his own rules, calling forum members "stupid", "idiotic" and "trolls" without providing a shred of support for those claims.  I would feel compelled to call him a despicable hypocrite, but that would most likely result in both of those words being thrown down the memory hole, never to be used by the hoi polloi again.

Michael has more in mind than just banning words like "stupid" and "fucking" and "cunt".  He also intends to put an end to the tag "abuse", which is probably one of the most-loved features of this forum.  It seems that creativity is anathema to Michael's plan for a drab community of austere "materity" where everyone can sit around politely disagreeing with each other.  A community of crybabies who think "ad hominem" is a fancy way of saying "an insult".  We all know what happened the last time this TDWTF tried to clean up its image by purging obscenities from the title.  I think it's clear not many people here want to see this turn into a Disney-fied circle jerk.

 

What's more, Michael has indicated on IRC several times that is planning to get particular users banned from the forums.  If this wasn't unfortunate enough, he is also intent on abusing powers on the IRC channel as well.  In his first few minutes on the channel -- without knowing anyone there or participating at all -- he targeted and banned MasterPlanSoftware for absolutely no reason.  His moderator abuse is evident in IRC and will soon be seen on the forums as well.  Despite his supposed distate for immaturity, he is the most immature and abusive moderator I have ever seen.  He enjoys calling people stupid and banning them, as well as making homophobic jokes.  For this reason, those of us interested in preserving a sane environment for the discussion of topics where nobody is censored for disagreeing with those in power have made our own IRC channel: #TDWTFMafia on irc.slashnet.org.  All are welcome to join but please expect that if you make stupid, false statements you will be called on it.  However, if you do not want to be subject to the spastic tantrums of a troubled child on a power-trip, you may find it to your liking.

 

When someone is wrong I will disagree with them.  I will use strong language if I think it will be illustrative or will nudge someone in the right direction.  I will not bow to the whims of a child moderator who thinks everyone should share his love of insincere politesse.  I do not intend to be coerced into showing respect to those who I feel have not earned it.  I do not want these forums -- my forums -- run by a petty tyrant who can only tolerate bland, inoffensive pap.  I do not want to see the direction of this site dictated by whining infants who bawl and try to hide behind censorship at the slightest insult.  I don't feel that Michael is responsible enough to be a moderator nor representative of the community at large.  I ask that Alex carefully consider the path that little Mikey is intent on dragging us down.  Thank you.

I've never heard of him. 

morbiuswilters:

He also intends to put an end to the tag "abuse", which is probably one of the most-loved features of this forum.

 I guess he's afraid of AddPost.aspx's output growing over 1 gigabyte of tags. Right now it's like 500kb.

morbiuswilters:

He enjoys calling people stupid and banning them, as well as making homophobic jokes.

 

I am homosexual, so err... ban me? 

 

 

Oh well, as i said, i don't know him. From what you said, he's probably not the best guy to be a mod at these forums.

Thx for the flowers, and well... let's use this threads to discuss a possible set of rules you (the community) would like to see enforced.

 I think the forums should be moderated. The way they are moderated now. Sometimes a thread just changes to something completely different but are still enjoyable and quit informative. If they are not informative they are usually still fun reading and if not I just do not read them. We all seem to be grown ups and should be able to cope with bad language. I may qoute an irish bus driver talking to a policeman in Dublin

I can drive on this fucking road the hole year

and his reply was simply

This fucking road is closed on St. Patricks Day.

I was not hostile, it was more like a normal conversation. Correct me if I do not understand the "rules" correctly but according to them you could ban both parties for just having an exchange of information in their normal language.

Though some things might not be acceptable I think the members of this forum are still grown up enough to award stupid posts a mug. 

I fucking agree, who the fuck does he think he fucking is, coming here fucking around and causing fucking drama with his fucking ignorance.

We're not some fucking kindergarten class. We fucking well know what the fuck to say at any given fucking moment.

This fucking does not apply to fucking trolls of cource. Because we all know how fucking annoying they are.

We fucking need fucking someone fucking who fucking knows fucking this fucking forum.

  

morbiuswilters:

he targeted and banned MasterPlanSoftware for absolutely no reason.

+5 for comedy value. Sorry, I have a twisted sense of humour.

So he wants to stop people from cutting up other people's posts and flaming them sentence by sentence? And he locked that cancer tumour of a thread? Oh, man is that gonna ruin it for some of the regulars... >:) 

On a  more serious note I suppose it all depends on the kind of community you want to run. If the natives enjoy going after each other's throat, should you let them have their fun or restrict them so the place becomes a little more civilized? In any case this promises to be an interesting thread.

Actual moderation? Here? Get out, you're kidding me.

A little moderation might be okay, but I haven't seen very much reason for it in here yet.

Locking the SS thread is maybe the worst way to start anyway. It was fun to read and a good place to gather all trolls and flame posts allowing other threads to stay on-topic (for 2 posts :D )

Alex, please keep the dog kid on a leash :P

 

 

<*ranting about edit times on forum posts*>

Kefer:

allowing other threads to stay on-topic (for 2 posts :D )

That's the thing..

Post. Post. Flame...
Post. Post. Flame...

While fun for a while, it gets tiresome in a real hurry. Isn't the point of moderation usually to shove the kindergarten out?

Guy sounds like every other moderator who somehow manages to get "promoted" (Is he a friend of Alex's or something? I've never heard of the guy - usually moderators are pretty well-known in the community. This guy just seems to have popped up out of nowhere and became a mod) and lets power go to their head. We are all adults here, we don't need to be told to play nice and keep things politically correct like school children. If someone is a complete idiot and spouting nonsense, they deserve to be flamed for their stupidity. Ignorant behavior should not be encouraged, but dealt with swiftly so the ignorant know that behavior is not tolerated.

That said, I'm certain that under our new overlord this thread will be summarily locked, and the OP banned for disagreeing with a moderator (Rule #1 - Never argue with a moderator, even when they're clearly a fucking moron). That's usually how it goes on the internet.

Remember, like in the book Animal Farm: All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

FYI: Michael has been a moderator just as long as I. The afore mentioned post-post-flame pattern has of course caused some irritation among us mods. Locking the SSDS thread may have been a poor decision (you know my stance on that topic) but lets be honest, that thread has become a bit boring lately.

Have you considered a political career?

As for me, while locking SpectateSwamp's thread is IMO not a good idea, I woudn't mind a stronger degree of moderation.

ammoQ:

FYI: Michael has been a moderator just as long as I. The afore mentioned post-post-flame pattern has of course caused some irritation among us mods.

I've never seen this question answered: how many mods are there? Are they active frequently? I get the sense that the mods were created some time ago and their numbers haven't been increased to respond to the influx of new members. Also, other than you, is there any active moderator? Spam threads, for example, manage to stay up for the better part of a day before getting any attention, and I can't be the only one who reports them.

ammoQ:

Thx for the flowers, and well... let's use this threads to discuss a possible set of rules you (the community) would like to see enforced.

IMO there's not very much moderation required. People that are just in here to insult / troll / flame should be banned if they persist in that behavior. Discriminating or otherwise seriously offending posts should be deleted.

I'm a longtime reader (and as you can see, not the most active poster in that time) and i'm more annoyed by the poor quality of some of the OPs lately. But nothing much is to be done 'bout that I guess...

I don't mind that he locked the SS thread, its not like another one can't be started anytime for those who feel left out. I see a small need for moderation, but the benefits aren't really worth it yet. I mean, I don't care for a little language, but I don't like when people start name calling and all the other stuff.  But then again, we all know what the F in WTF stands for so we shouldn't be here if we couldn't handle it. Some patterns of late are discouraging though.

ObiWayneKenobi:

Remember, like in the book Animal Farm: All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

 

Spectre:

As for me, while locking SpectateSwamp's thread is IMO not a good idea, I woudn't mind a stronger degree of moderation.

 

Hey! You heard Our Beloved Leader! Its the SpectreSwamp thread!

This post has two versions, please select the one you want to use.

[morbiuswilters-forum-mode]

You're such a fucking idiotic retard it's suprises me you can even find the keys on your keyboard! Our Beloved Leader must moderate the boards! I do not read you arguments because I know I'm right. If you post arguments I'll just call you more idiotic, a troll and say (you don't even have the right to discuss the topic! || you are so badly informed it hurts my eye! || I've already proved my own righteousness and thus will just call you even more idiotic!)

[ncommander-forum-mode]

 I still don't really get what's your problem with him. He might not (yet) be fully integrated into the community but basic civilization rules should apply to all communities. Like you said. He basically asks you not to insult people and not to degrind threads by turning them into a flame-fest. In the IRC you said you flamed people because they posted stupid/wrong things and/or are stupid/wrong. The problem with that is that you decide who's stupid and who's wrong. That is not an absolute thruth. Still you use your version of the truth to insult people and cause havoc in the threat. I think it's a good idea if there'd be a second-opinion to correct you. I know there is one already, but it seems he believes in as little modding as possible while that viewpoint seems to me as failed. Look at the threads. Moreover he , as you said, actively contributes to forums.tdwtf and has said himself it is not right to moderate a threat you post yourself in. A "I do not agree with a mod" threat could be created (like on every major forum) where can spout your disagreement. ammoQ, NCommander, the disagreer and interested posters could argue there about a threat.

As you might've guessed I'm pro a stricter moderation. I think it would make the forums a much nicer place to be. 

[/ncommander-forum-mode]

dtech:

This post has two versions, ... bla bla bla

What's your point IIMA? Or are you just trying to mock others?

I don't have any problem with one poster "flaming" another as long as they do it in a single post.  What I find is annoying is a series of one-line comments between two posters, bickering like an old couple and completely off topic.

The only moderation I ask for is a way to squelch those wastes of space so that the people with something to say can be heard.  That could be accomplished with censoring, banning, thresholds, or personal block lists. 

dtech:

Moreover he , as you said, actively contributes to forums.tdwtf and has said himself it is not right to moderate a threat you post yourself in.

This is not a strict rule but rather a guideline to have a fair discussion. In a highly controversial thread (like the gun laws thread we had last week), it would look bad if I moderated people who disagree with me just because they e.g. use the word "moron" somewhere in their posts.  But nobody should take that as a license to troll, flame and spam just because I've posted once in a thread.

As for the question "how many mods are there"? Well, at least two. Originally we were four (+Alex), but I'm afraid two of them are no longer active. 

 

ammoQ:

This is not a strict rule but rather a guideline to have a fair discussion. In a highly controversial thread (like the gun laws thread we had last week), it would look bad if I moderated people who disagree with me just because they e.g. use the word "moron" somewhere in their posts.  But nobody should take that as a license to troll, flame and spam just because I've posted once in a thread.

AmmoQ, despite your opinion of me, or my minor issues with you in the past, I would like to take the chance and agree with morbiuswilters.

You do a great job as is. You could argue a few more locks would be nice, or a few less, or whatever. However, I think so far the forums have gone just fine under your watch.

 

So my point is the same as morbiuswilter's. I would like to see the forums stay precisely as they are now.